Comments on: The Needle and the Damage Done: The NBA and HGH http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/ The Unofficial Home for Real Talk Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:38:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Blake Murphy http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1980 Blake Murphy Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:38:59 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1980 They didn't link, so allow me to provide a supporter for you Trev - http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/03/17/does-the-nba-have-a-steroid-problem-hiding-in-plain-sight/ They didn’t link, so allow me to provide a supporter for you Trev – http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/03/17/does-the-nba-have-a-steroid-problem-hiding-in-plain-sight/

]]> By: Desman http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1979 Desman Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:58:45 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1979 I'm not sure if NBA players use HGH. A lot of NBA players came out of high school and they couldn't be taking hormones, I doubt their coaches told them about HGH. It's sad to say, but some grew up in poor communities and households. How in the world could they barely put food on the table and then try to go afford some HGH. Basketball is all about jumping and your stretching out your body a lot. If HGH is already produced in our bodies when we sleep, why not play ball and then get a good restful sleep at night. Then you would put your HGH to it's maximum performance and grow stronger. I believe this is what many NBA players did. Maybe some may be taking some HGH, but I doubt they been taking it for awhile. I’m not sure if NBA players use HGH. A lot of NBA players came out of high school and they couldn’t be taking hormones, I doubt their coaches told them about HGH. It’s sad to say, but some grew up in poor communities and households. How in the world could they barely put food on the table and then try to go afford some HGH. Basketball is all about jumping and your stretching out your body a lot. If HGH is already produced in our bodies when we sleep, why not play ball and then get a good restful sleep at night. Then you would put your HGH to it’s maximum performance and grow stronger. I believe this is what many NBA players did. Maybe some may be taking some HGH, but I doubt they been taking it for awhile.

]]> By: vic http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1987 vic Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:33:15 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1987 For sure, there are SOME who use PEDs in all the sports, including the NBA. But to come to that conclusion based simply on improved athleticism and strength of players is misplaced. Remember, there is much bigger money in the NBA right now, and the media hype about it has multiplied exponentially. This has led to 1) better training techniques, 2) earlier recognition of physical potential - which is honed earlier, and 3) increased pool of hopefuls with which to choose from. The earlier greats you mentioned - Bird, Grant, etc. - they are the type of people who played basketball because they liked it. But these kids now, they're sort of "farmed". They and others see potential in their bodies and they use it in a sport to achieve fame and fortune in their lives. With the popularity of basketball and the other sports magnified by the media, we now have a bigger pool of people who try and enter a basketball career. And because the pool is so much bigger, more and more physically gifted individuals join are available in that pool to be selected - sometimes with those less gifted not being able to get the chance to develop into "skills" players a la Bird and McHale. Thus the trend into bigger bodies and more athleticism. For sure, there are SOME who use PEDs in all the sports, including the NBA. But to come to that conclusion based simply on improved athleticism and strength of players is misplaced. Remember, there is much bigger money in the NBA right now, and the media hype about it has multiplied exponentially. This has led to 1) better training techniques, 2) earlier recognition of physical potential – which is honed earlier, and 3) increased pool of hopefuls with which to choose from. The earlier greats you mentioned – Bird, Grant, etc. – they are the type of people who played basketball because they liked it. But these kids now, they’re sort of “farmed”. They and others see potential in their bodies and they use it in a sport to achieve fame and fortune in their lives. With the popularity of basketball and the other sports magnified by the media, we now have a bigger pool of people who try and enter a basketball career. And because the pool is so much bigger, more and more physically gifted individuals join are available in that pool to be selected – sometimes with those less gifted not being able to get the chance to develop into “skills” players a la Bird and McHale. Thus the trend into bigger bodies and more athleticism.

]]> By: Chad http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1986 Chad Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:37:30 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1986 I don't think Ben Wallace is a good example, his body is obviously breaking down at the time it should be after the wear and tear it took. I think HGH would extend it. Although, if my memory serves me correctly, didn't Mark Blount (not that anyone cares about him) come out a few years ago and say that his legal guardian (who I think was playing agent as well) had injected him with some sort of Human Growth substance in his teens. If I do remember correctly, nothing much was made of it because obviously it hasn't made him a superstar. I don’t think Ben Wallace is a good example, his body is obviously breaking down at the time it should be after the wear and tear it took. I think HGH would extend it. Although, if my memory serves me correctly, didn’t Mark Blount (not that anyone cares about him) come out a few years ago and say that his legal guardian (who I think was playing agent as well) had injected him with some sort of Human Growth substance in his teens. If I do remember correctly, nothing much was made of it because obviously it hasn’t made him a superstar.

]]> By: Blake Murphy http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1984 Blake Murphy Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:22:40 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1984 I think some people are missing a few important things here. First, Trev made it pretty clear he knows about advancements in modern science. it can explain a lot. It 'explained' a lot about baseball, too. Just saying. As for the Olympics, yes, they test, everyone is right. But PEDs don't stay in your system forever, and HGH tests are, at best, expensive and not perfected. It would be entirely conceivable to cycle off a drug in time for the Olympics. As for the incentive scheme....there's always a next contract, and there's always personal pride and your legacy. That argument only holds water for Eddy Curry. I think some people are missing a few important things here.

First, Trev made it pretty clear he knows about advancements in modern science. it can explain a lot. It ‘explained’ a lot about baseball, too. Just saying.

As for the Olympics, yes, they test, everyone is right. But PEDs don’t stay in your system forever, and HGH tests are, at best, expensive and not perfected. It would be entirely conceivable to cycle off a drug in time for the Olympics.

As for the incentive scheme….there’s always a next contract, and there’s always personal pride and your legacy. That argument only holds water for Eddy Curry.

]]> By: Kae http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1985 Kae Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:10:27 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1985 While I agree that the 'POTENTIAL' for PED's is there in the NBA, I think that You miss the points that Haze hit on. Sports SCIENCE is so much far more ADVANCED than it was even 5 years ago. Nowadays almost ALL NBA players have; a)Personal Trainers b)Dieticians/Cooks/etc. to monitor their caloric intake. c)No Private lives. so if they are bigger, stronger, faster, it's mainly because of "a) & b)" above more than any other factor. WHY can't all the things that Karl Malone was doing be duplicated en masse by the players in the league??? DON'T they test for PED's in the OLYMPICS? So at the very least we can certainly say none of those guys who were on the DREAM TEAMS were doping (in addition to NBA stars on OTHER countries teams)... I was gonna say just my opinion, but the OLYMPICS is FACT that most NBA players don't need to dope... There is no 'incentive', EVEN with injuries, to dope with the GUARANTEED contracts (meaning you're gonna get paid regardless, whether you play and even if you are injured), UNLIKE most other sports. That in an of itself would make me feel like WHY should NBA players, cheat to come back from injury 'early' or earlier, when you're gonna get paid ANYWAYS??? Again, that's UNLIKE any other sport where contracts are not guaranteed. While I agree that the ‘POTENTIAL’ for PED’s is there in the NBA, I think that You miss the points that Haze hit on. Sports SCIENCE is so much far more ADVANCED than it was even 5 years ago.

Nowadays almost ALL NBA players have;
a)Personal Trainers
b)Dieticians/Cooks/etc. to monitor their caloric intake.
c)No Private lives.

so if they are bigger, stronger, faster, it’s mainly because of “a) & b)” above more than any other factor.

WHY can’t all the things that Karl Malone was doing be duplicated en masse by the players in the league???

DON’T they test for PED’s in the OLYMPICS?

So at the very least we can certainly say none of those guys who were on the DREAM TEAMS were doping (in addition to NBA stars on OTHER countries teams)…

I was gonna say just my opinion, but the OLYMPICS is FACT that most NBA players don’t need to dope…

There is no ‘incentive’, EVEN with injuries, to dope with the GUARANTEED contracts (meaning you’re gonna get paid regardless, whether you play and even if you are injured), UNLIKE most other sports.

That in an of itself would make me feel like WHY should NBA players, cheat to come back from injury ‘early’ or earlier, when you’re gonna get paid ANYWAYS???

Again, that’s UNLIKE any other sport where contracts are not guaranteed.

]]> By: Coast To Coast – 03.06.2009 | WaitingForNextYear http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1983 Coast To Coast – 03.06.2009 | WaitingForNextYear Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:00:31 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1983 [...] As for him bringing up Ben and LeBron, I don’t think he was insinuating anything specific with those 2 players as much as he was just using them as prime examples of the physical specimens that NBA players are today. But let me ask you guys this question….suppose next month Sports Illustrated breaks a story accusing LeBron of using PEDs. How would you react? Would you be shocked? Would you be defiant? I don’t think in ANY way LeBron is performance enhancing, but I’d be lying if I said I would be 100% shocked. I don’t think I can ever be shocked by a professional athlete’s off court conduct ever again. [The Needle and the Damage Done] [...] [...] As for him bringing up Ben and LeBron, I don’t think he was insinuating anything specific with those 2 players as much as he was just using them as prime examples of the physical specimens that NBA players are today. But let me ask you guys this question….suppose next month Sports Illustrated breaks a story accusing LeBron of using PEDs. How would you react? Would you be shocked? Would you be defiant? I don’t think in ANY way LeBron is performance enhancing, but I’d be lying if I said I would be 100% shocked. I don’t think I can ever be shocked by a professional athlete’s off court conduct ever again. [The Needle and the Damage Done] [...]

]]> By: Haze http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1989 Haze Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:33:17 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1989 What a dumb arse article. Why randomly compare Ben Wallace...one of the most physically imposing playes in the league to Kurt Rambis? Why not compare Kurt Rambis to the Lakers current Power Forward, Pau Gasol? Maybe because they have the same exact physique? Why not compare Horace Grant PF for the Bulls and Magic to the respective current PFs on each team? Maybe because he is dramatically more defined and powerful than the rail thin Joakhim Noah and Rashard Lewis? Why not compare Kevin McHale to his friend and Celtic replacement, the HoFer Kevin Garnett? Is it because they also have the exact same body type? Why not put a picture of Dominique Wilkins next to that HQ pic of Dwade so that we can remember and observe the similarities in their games and bodies? Jordan and Kobe?...Its like looking in a mirror. And LeBron is not even close to the physical stature of Malone. Look at the pics again. Malone was a bodybuilder. LeBron has been naturally strong and defined since gaining the national spotlight at 14/15. You were right about one thing though...you have no evidence, no sources, no anything...just a penchant for sensationalism and connecting dots on opposite ends of the world. How conveniently you ignore the huge evolutionary steps basketball and sports medicine have taken in the last 2 decades. No mention of players coming out of HS (including James and Howard, your main examples), no mention of the shirt in the game to being played above the rim or the NBA experiencing a golden age in the 80's and early 90's, which translated into ridiculously large contracts, an explosion in youth involvement, greater competition and more advanced training techniques. Long held MLB records were shattered due to PEDs, any player will tell you about the open acceptance of PED use in the culture of that sport...all the way down to the HS levels. Nimble footed Kareem holds the record for most points scored, even his airness himself couldn't top the mark....was Kareem on PEDs? Was Oscar Robertson taking HGH when he averaged a triple double? If so...why can't the steroid infused LeBron James (based on your assertions)top that? Come on man...that was a sensationalist, fairy tale article if I ever read one. I'm 100% sure that there are NBA athletes using banned substances to bounce back from injury but you can probably count their ranks on one hand. The picture that you painted above and the crux of your article is complete malarkey... What a dumb arse article. Why randomly compare Ben Wallace…one of the most physically imposing playes in the league to Kurt Rambis? Why not compare Kurt Rambis to the Lakers current Power Forward, Pau Gasol? Maybe because they have the same exact physique? Why not compare Horace Grant PF for the Bulls and Magic to the respective current PFs on each team? Maybe because he is dramatically more defined and powerful than the rail thin Joakhim Noah and Rashard Lewis? Why not compare Kevin McHale to his friend and Celtic replacement, the HoFer Kevin Garnett? Is it because they also have the exact same body type? Why not put a picture of Dominique Wilkins next to that HQ pic of Dwade so that we can remember and observe the similarities in their games and bodies? Jordan and Kobe?…Its like looking in a mirror. And LeBron is not even close to the physical stature of Malone. Look at the pics again. Malone was a bodybuilder. LeBron has been naturally strong and defined since gaining the national spotlight at 14/15. You were right about one thing though…you have no evidence, no sources, no anything…just a penchant for sensationalism and connecting dots on opposite ends of the world. How conveniently you ignore the huge evolutionary steps basketball and sports medicine have taken in the last 2 decades. No mention of players coming out of HS (including James and Howard, your main examples), no mention of the shirt in the game to being played above the rim or the NBA experiencing a golden age in the 80′s and early 90′s, which translated into ridiculously large contracts, an explosion in youth involvement, greater competition and more advanced training techniques. Long held MLB records were shattered due to PEDs, any player will tell you about the open acceptance of PED use in the culture of that sport…all the way down to the HS levels. Nimble footed Kareem holds the record for most points scored, even his airness himself couldn’t top the mark….was Kareem on PEDs? Was Oscar Robertson taking HGH when he averaged a triple double? If so…why can’t the steroid infused LeBron James (based on your assertions)top that? Come on man…that was a sensationalist, fairy tale article if I ever read one. I’m 100% sure that there are NBA athletes using banned substances to bounce back from injury but you can probably count their ranks on one hand. The picture that you painted above and the crux of your article is complete malarkey…

]]> By: Jet Rogers http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1988 Jet Rogers Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:56:14 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1988 After reading this article I feel like taking HGH. All I read was good things heal quicker, get stronger, faster, and reverse the signs of aging sounds like they should sell this stuff over the counter at Wal-Greens because I can use some of that stuff. Maybe a cancer patient can use that stuff, or an old woman that has never gotten out of bed. So what if these guys are taking HGH? Basketball is more about entertainment these days. Dunks and fast-paced high-flying action is what puts butts in the seats. No one watched basketball in the 70's or 80's until Michael Jordan came and started dunking on everyone's heads. Then everyone stopped watching again when he left. So if you ask me HGH has been good for the game. Then again there is no proof so this is all speculation. After reading this article I feel like taking HGH. All I read was good things heal quicker, get stronger, faster, and reverse the signs of aging sounds like they should sell this stuff over the counter at Wal-Greens because I can use some of that stuff. Maybe a cancer patient can use that stuff, or an old woman that has never gotten out of bed.

So what if these guys are taking HGH? Basketball is more about entertainment these days. Dunks and fast-paced high-flying action is what puts butts in the seats. No one watched basketball in the 70′s or 80′s until Michael Jordan came and started dunking on everyone’s heads. Then everyone stopped watching again when he left. So if you ask me HGH has been good for the game.

Then again there is no proof so this is all speculation.

]]> By: Zach Bates http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/05/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/comment-page-1/#comment-1982 Zach Bates Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:38:35 +0000 http://theondeckcircle.net/?p=2626#comment-1982 Not only HGH... What about EPO and blood doping? Basketball is a game of endurance as well. Not only HGH… What about EPO and blood doping? Basketball is a game of endurance as well.

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